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Atheists and Agnostics Meeting Place

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Asan na yung gumawa ng thread na to na sinasabi nyang atheist sya? Buhay pa ba? LOL

If you guys no longer believe in God because 'you think he abandoned you, you think he doesn't listen, you saw a man killed at the street and no one helped, you saw lives taken because of catastrophes, you're hearing news about thievery, rapes, murder, terrorism, violence or what have you" then I pity you... Because what you have was just BELIEF and not FAITH.

You guys wants to see, feel, or hear things first before you can tell it's real. Then let me ask you, do you have Brain? Do you have Heart? You might have seen it from pictures but have you ever seen, or even touched your heart or brain even once? If no, then what makes you think you have them? That is what you call FAITH. Believing on something that you have not seen, heard, felt, tasted or what have you... Hope you guys find it too, someday at the right time...

He have PLANS for all of us... We don't have to know, we just have to have Faith. Who wants to spoil the surprise anyway? ;)
 
Asan na yung gumawa ng thread na to na sinasabi nyang atheist sya? Buhay pa ba? LOL

If you guys no longer believe in God because 'you think he abandoned you, you think he doesn't listen, you saw a man killed at the street and no one helped, you saw lives taken because of catastrophes, you're hearing news about thievery, rapes, murder, terrorism, violence or what have you" then I pity you... Because what you have was just BELIEF and not FAITH.

You guys wants to see, feel, or hear things first before you can tell it's real. Then let me ask you, do you have Brain? Do you have Heart? You might have seen it from pictures but have you ever seen, or even touched your heart or brain even once? If no, then what makes you think you have them? That is what you call FAITH. Believing on something that you have not seen, heard, felt, tasted or what have you... Hope you guys find it too, someday at the right time...

He have PLANS for all of us... We don't have to know, we just have to have Faith. Who wants to spoil the surprise anyway? ;)

Ows ?? parang alam na alam mo na ang buhay ah, ilan na ba anak mo ?? nasubukan mo na ba ang maging mahirap na buhay ? baka mayaman ka ? nasubukan mo na bang humigop lang ng sabaw for 2 days?? nasubukan mo na bang matulog sa kalye?? nasubukan mo na bang masaktan ang damdamin mo ng asawa mo o nasubukan mo na bang kaliwain ka ng asawa mo kahit na sobrang bait mo?? nasubukan mo na bang mabalian ng buto dahil sa sobrang sipag sa trabaho?? etc.etc.etc.

now kung hindi pa , medyo damihan mo pa Expirience mo sa buhay

subukan mong matulog sa kalye walang kumot walang unan, at huwag kang kumain ng dalawang araw pwede kang kumain yung mga galing sa basurahan katulad nang ginagawa ng ibang pulubing Pilipino, at huwag naman sanang mabalian ka ng buto , etc. etc.

eto Video panoorin mo po , para maintindihan mo


Good-luck sa iyo !
 
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The Bible is a product of human history. It doens't only chronicle the Jewish culture but all of humanity's but focuses on the Jewish nation since the covenant started with them. Sharing some commonalities with other religion doesn't mean Judaism/Christianity were copied/stolen from them. It contains parallels with the earlier religions because that's how truth developed - from polytheism to monotheism; from various pagan religions to Judaism to Christianity.

The Bible is a revisionist's version of history. More specifically, it is the Jews' reinterpretation of history to push their own world-conquering agendas. The commonalities that you mentioned are not shared, they are existing myths that became tools of manipulation in the hands of Jewish writers, propagandists. They replaced every existing gods, rituals, numerologies and other occult systems and appropriated them for their own twisted ends.

And the Bible is so far removed from "chronicling" humanity's culture—far from it. It chronicles how the old beliefs are subtly replaced by the Jewish program of religious monopoly and thought control. If they happen to mention other cultures, it comes as a mere coincidence, and only for the purpose of denigrating these other cultures as so far below their own and thus must be destroyed.

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As I've previously said, God is not easily understood. The Sumerians, ancient Egyptians, everyone that predated the Jews believed in many gods. Different gods for the sun, moon, stars, trees and even gods for the things that they made. Until things started going wrong and they questioned why things were not good. They all had some idea of the truth but could not fully comprehend it. This is why the Bible had to be created. Nearly every word of the first creation account addresses a particular confusion of that age. God wanted people to worship the one true God and shun the many false gods that they used to believe. That's why there are apparent similarities among many mythologies throughout the world, including those most strikingly similar and even preceding the Bible. The Bible did not stole since the Jews had no reason to. Judaism was never envisioned as an evangelical religion. It is cloistered along the bloodline. With each generation from Abraham, to Moses, to Isaiah, to Jesus, man's deficiencies in understanding God is removed. So where other mythologies erred to varying extents in their interpretation of God's revelation, the Jews received a truer understanding, and the Christianity even moreso.

In fact, the Jewish God is explicitly constructed to defy understanding and exact definition. It serves their end to confound anyone who questions the whole system of their religion. So God is both warlike and peaceful, just and bigot. The whole belief system of Judaism/Christianity is meant to serve all extremes, to trap any one who dares question the whole religious setup. The whole gamut of chants, hidden numerological mysteries, occult rituals are meant to brainwash massive populations who are unaware of what is being done to them.

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Name me an ethnicity that emerged from antiquity and still exists today with their name, identity, language, religion, culture all preserved despite thousands of years of persecution and banishment. None except the Jews.

The Romans are no more despite how powerful they used to be. The Greeks were never banished nor were the Hindus, of which much of the former's culture and identity having been Christianized. The Persians became the modern-day Iranians and their culture now replaced by the Islamic culture. The Mesopotamians, Assyrians, ancient Egyptians no longer exist. They all have become Arabs. And where are the Edomites, the Moabites, the Babylonians? They have long disappeared. Nations rise and fall. They don't exist forever. All nations that have conquered the Jews in the past are now all gone but the Jews are still around. Everyone who studies Jewish history knows that there’s something EXTRAORDINARY about the Jews. And what's even more amazing is that they didn't just manage to overcome all the adversities that came their way, they became a remarkable race. The Jews despite numbering only 14 million which is 0.00001% of people in the world are highly influential people. They are overrepresented in fields as diverse as politics, science, arts, business, entertainment, etc. compared to their small population size. The Jews have the highest I.Q. of all ethnicities. 20 of the 100 most influential scientists in the world are Jewish. Most of the big corporations in the West are owned by Jewish people. Hollywood is basically run by the Jews. Israel, despite having only 7 million population, is one of the top patent-registering countries and biggest arms exporter..

A lot of historians, philosophers, writers and researchers were amazed how remarkable the Jews are and wondered what's so special about them that despite being older than most other nations and not having a country of their own for millenias, the Jews did not only manage to outlive them all, but have become unbelievably disproportionately successful people. The answers are all there in the Torah.

The Jews being God's chosen people doesn't mean they are favored by God over everyone else. It means they are chosen by God to reveal him to the world and they will play a vital role in the end times so unless that prophecy is fulfilled they will never be erased from the face of the earth.

And btw, the Land of Israel LEGALLY belongs to the Jewish people today. In antiquity, whoever conquered and occupied the land was the owner. The Palestinians were never the legal owner of that land. That land were alternately owned and controlled by the Romans, the Ottomans and the British throughout the centuries while the Jews were on exile until it was decided by the League of Nations to give it legally to the Jews.

As I said, persecution and survival from it by any race will never be an excuse to rightly claim they are any God's chosen race. There are many reasons why a race could persist—even get away with its adventures—in this world. Who would say all those ancient nations that existed before have no direct descendants today? That is statistically foolhardy to claim. Historical annals might have written them off, they might be lost for all intent, but that is just because they did not hold to their ancient identities as the Jews are racially inclined to do.

And again, the matter of persecution was brought by the Jews upon themselves, earning the ire of their immediate neighbors and their descendants through time by appropriating lands not theirs. If they could justify that they have legal right to the land, AFTER forcefully taking it away from the previous owners, what's to stop others from doing the same act to them, as is happening now? An eye for an eye, isn't it?

If you want persecution and survival, what could equal the massive annihilation of a total continent—South America—by all the brutal Conquistadors who went there in the name of Christianity? The whole Aztecs and their contemporaries, all their histories and written materials almost wiped out by the Bible-and-sword-wielding fanatics. Yet, miraculously, they have managed to be here with us, but STRIPPED of their own native cultures and identities after the Christians skinned them naked of their treasures and all?

Yes, the native Americans, despite being removed from their roots and identities by the works of righteous Christians, are still with us, now slowly claiming their ancestral birthrights, and they are doing it without raising hell against the world that did it to them in the first place, and without claiming they are the true people of any god as the Jews would have done it.

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Science is only based on observation and experiment. It is an evidence-based inquiry. Proving implies absolute certainty. And the concept of "absolute" is a philosophical concept not a scientific one. It is still a philosophical debate today if absolutes exist (absolute time, absolute reality, absolute truth, etc.). The concept of absolute only resides in the realms of philosophy and religion. And proof only exists as a concept in mathematics and logic. Proof is the process of validation of evidence/proposition but due to man's subjective bias and limited sensory perception it is highly improbable (scientifically speaking) to prove something. Science is all about degrees of probability not absolute truth or certainty. And scientific fact doesn't equate to absolute truth. That's why some great scientists make very bad philosophers when they make bold declarations which are outside the scope of their field of expertise such as, "There is no God."

And mythology is just a popular belief or story. Myths can either be true or false. Or they are intended to convey truth even when they are not, strictly speaking, true. Myth is a means of communicating non-empirical truth in an oral culture. Something being a myth doesn't make it automatically false. Religion is a web of beliefs, philosophies, practices, traditions, and even politics (Iislam for example). It may contain elements of myths (parable, allegory) but it's too complex and diverse to dismiss it as mere superstition (the negative definition of mythology). There are elements of a religion that can be false but not all of it is false, or can be "proven" false, especially not by science.

"only based on observation and experiment..."? What is it in the methodology of science for anyone to dare belittle it? Of course, there are still people today who would rather be dictated by the WHIMS of their mystic gods rather than stare cold reality and facts in the face. They would rather be brainwashed everyday and not bother to question all the beliefs spoonfed to them ever since they saw the light of day.

When what you believe defies any means to be in any way verifiable and falsifiable—while the self-proclaimed prophets hold dearly to your pockets, to boot—it should be a warning for good people to run for their lives, but some people just live another way and choose to live like robots their entire lives.
 
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@Stormer0628 ^ thumbs up to you sir, very well said :thumbsup::praise:

Much appreciated. It's time we help clean the polluted air planted by the seeds of lie centuries and centuries in the making. Man deserves better than what the whole bunch of mystics has to offer.
 
The latest discussion reminds me of Ray Comfort vs The Great Dark Lord Aron ra.

---
Note to everyone --

Please avoid direct engagement. Baka ma-ban kayo.
 
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The Bible is a revisionist's version of history. More specifically, it is the Jews' reinterpretation of history to push their own world-conquering agendas. The commonalities that you mentioned are not shared, they are existing myths that became tools of manipulation in the hands of Jewish writers, propagandists. They replaced every existing gods, rituals, numerologies and other occult systems and appropriated them for their own twisted ends.

And the Bible is so far removed from "chronicling" humanity's culture—far from it. It chronicles how the old beliefs are subtly replaced by the Jewish program of religious monopoly and thought control. If they happen to mention other cultures, it comes as a mere coincidence, and only for the purpose of denigrating these other cultures as so far below their own and thus must be destroyed.

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In fact, the Jewish God is explicitly constructed to defy understanding and exact definition. It serves their end to confound anyone who questions the whole system of their religion. So God is both warlike and peaceful, just and bigot. The whole belief system of Judaism/Christianity is meant to serve all extremes, to trap any one who dares question the whole religious setup. The whole gamut of chants, hidden numerological mysteries, occult rituals are meant to brainwash massive populations who are unaware of what is being done to them.

To say the Jews stole from or appropriated another religion because elements of their religion and belief system seem to mirror those of others is completely naive. It is like saying the Egyptians stole the concept of the pyramid from the Incas because both used it but the Incas did it first.

You can't 'steal' (religious) ideology: You can only accept, acquire, or incorporate it, but not 'steal' it. Most ancient pagan and world religions today share similarities because they are progression of each other. It's called perennialism. Even religions which are supposed to be esoteric ones are not completely distinct but have actually sprung out from the another religions that preceded them. All religions are connected because just what I've said, they have one common source.

Your "world-conquering agendas" by the Jews is a completely baseless conspiracy theory and, in fact, one of the many underlying premises and reasons for antisemitism. How many times should I say that Judaism is not an evangelical religion? Judaism is a tribal religion. Jews don't even allow converts to their religion, at least to Orthodox Judaism. Their religion actually discourages gentile conversion. It's a national faith that belongs ONLY to the descendents of Jacob. You have to have your Jewish maternal lineage not broken to be considered Jewish. Even Christianity and Islam are considered heresies in Judaism and are rejected by the Jews. So I don't know where you get that idea of Jewish "religious monopoly and thought control." But if you're going to argue that Christianity and Islam, since having sprung out of Judaism, would have helped them with that alleged world-domination conspiracy, they were at war with the Jews for most of history and still Islam is today.

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As I said, persecution and survival from it by any race will never be an excuse to rightly claim they are any God's chosen race. There are many reasons why a race could persist—even get away with its adventures—in this world. Who would say all those ancient nations that existed before have no direct descendants today? That is statistically foolhardy to claim. Historical annals might have written them off, they might be lost for all intent, but that is just because they did not hold to their ancient identities as the Jews are racially inclined to do.

And again, the matter of persecution was brought by the Jews upon themselves, earning the ire of their immediate neighbors and their descendants through time by appropriating lands not theirs. If they could justify that they have legal right to the land, AFTER forcefully taking it away from the previous owners, what's to stop others from doing the same act to them, as is happening now? An eye for an eye, isn't it?

If you want persecution and survival, what could equal the massive annihilation of a total continent—South America—by all the brutal Conquistadors who went there in the name of Christianity? The whole Aztecs and their contemporaries, all their histories and written materials almost wiped out by the Bible-and-sword-wielding fanatics. Yet, miraculously, they have managed to be here with us, but STRIPPED of their own native cultures and identities after the Christians skinned them naked of their treasures and all?

Yes, the native Americans, despite being removed from their roots and identities by the works of righteous Christians, are still with us, now slowly claiming their ancestral birthrights, and they are doing it without raising hell against the world that did it to them in the first place, and without claiming they are the true people of any god as the Jews would have done it.


The Jews had been living in Israel 600 years before the Arabs came. And even after their exile there had never been an autonomous Arab country there. Only the Jews have ever successfully set up a sovereign nation on that land so there was never "previous owners" of that land for them to take it away from. And you cannot steal something that the League of Nations legally gave to you. Anti-Semites are the ones revising history, not the Jews. And what do you think did the Arabs do to get to Northern Africa and why is that area almost absent of black population? Why do the UK and France have territories in the Pacific, Atlantic, Carribean and Indian Ocean? How come Russia became so big of a country? Why are there even white people living in South Africa and Namibia today? Did they all get there through peaceful settlement or immigration? The formation of most countries in the world is primarily a result of violent conquest, invasion, expansion and expulsion or even genocide of the natives that first settled there. It is common among nearly all nations and societies in the past.

And haven't you followed what I've said in my earlier posts that it took hundreds, even more than a thousand years for Christians to understand their Bible? There was a period when they thought everything written in Old Testament was okay and hadn't learned yet that also nearly everything about it was superseded already by the New Testament? The Old Testament should only be used for historical context but was misused and abused to justify colonialism and slavery in the Age of Discovery, and is still being quoted even by some misguided practitioners today to justify their ignorance and hatred. If everyone abides by the New Testament which is where Christianity rightly commences, there would be peace on earth.

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"only based on observation and experiment..."? What is it in the methodology of science for anyone to dare belittle it? Of course, there are still people today who would rather be dictated by the WHIMS of their mystic gods rather than stare cold reality and facts in the face. They would rather be brainwashed everyday and not bother to question all the beliefs spoonfed to them ever since they saw the light of day.

When what you believe defies any means to be in any way verifiable and falsifiable—while the self-proclaimed prophets hold dearly to your pockets, to boot—it should be a warning for good people to run for their lives, but some people just live another way and choose to live like robots their entire lives.

Science is dependent on the use of the inductive method which relies on, yes, observation and experiment. Nothing more. And from things that are observed and experimented, scientists can only draw general conclusions on what they find, not on what they can't find. That's why science has nothing to say about God. Science is not used to "prove" the non-existence of anything. That's a misuse of the discipline! I'm not belittling science. You're the one aggrandizing science from its limits.
 
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To say the Jews stole from or appropriated another religion because elements of their religion and belief system seem to mirror those of others is completely naive. It is like saying the Egyptians stole the concept of the pyramid from the Incas because both used it but the Incas did it first.

It is not a matter of simply "mirroring" elements and beliefs of other religious systems before them. It is a matter of wielding those very same elements that existed way before the Jews came into their own and use them to banish those same traditions from memory as if they were the ones who invented or came up with them first. Notice how the Jews/Christians tend to destroy all other religious writings, artifacts so nobody could trace how they appropriated the old traditions for their own use. All their concept of God, of Jesus the Nazarene, of their rituals, etc., are lifted off materials that came thousands of years before their own ascendancy.

The analogy of pyramids as a general concept does not apply in the case of religious system. The concept of pyramids is based on ideas of mathematics and engineering, whereas for a religious system to be using the same storylines that existed before is another matter. There is a reason that general concepts as pyramids, pagodas, cannot be copyrighted or patented—but you can bet your kingdom come that stories could be. Look no further than the specifics of copyright and patent laws. Another thing is that there is a strong foundation to the belief that the practice of pyramid creation is a worldwide phenomenon of the ancient world, their very creators connected throughout the known world as it was.

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You can't 'steal' (religious) ideology: You can only accept, acquire, or incorporate it, but not 'steal' it. Most ancient pagan and world religions today share similarities because they are progression of each other. It's called perennialism. Even religions which are supposed to be esoteric ones are not completely distinct but have actually sprung out from the another religions that preceded them. All religions are connected because just what I've said, they have one common source.

Perennialism is based on universal ideas that could stand the test of time. Indeed, most religious systems share the same ideals. However, it is in the matter of details that religious systems must always differ. Notice how the biblical narratives are merely using details taken from other religious systems before them, from the use of halos to show the sanctity of heavenly beings, the use of specific numbers, the tales of creation and the Flood, etc. If you have taken the time to read one of the posts I had earlier, I have listed some of the specific items that Judaism/Christianity/Islam have liberally taken from earlier ones. That the Jews have not contributed one unique item to the existing traditions speaks volumes of their deadly intent to just use what already exist and mold them to their own ends.

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Your "world-conquering agendas" by the Jews is a completely baseless conspiracy theory and, in fact, one of the many underlying premises and reasons for antisemitism. How many times should I say that Judaism is not an evangelical religion? Judaism is a tribal religion. Jews don't even allow converts to their religion, at least to Orthodox Judaism. Their religion actually discourages gentile conversion. It's a national faith that belongs ONLY to the descendents of Jacob. You have to have your Jewish maternal lineage not broken to be considered Jewish. Even Christianity and Islam are considered heresies in Judaism and are rejected by the Jews. So I don't know where you get that idea of Jewish "religious monopoly and thought control." But if you're going to argue that Christianity and Islam, since having sprung out of Judaism, would have helped them with that alleged world-domination conspiracy, they were at war with the Jews for most of history and still Islam is today.

It is ever easy to dismiss the idea of conquering Jews as among the outstanding conspiracy theories out there. One fell swoop of a statement and the naysayers could go away. But look all around and ask yourself who holds the financial and influence-peddling power in this world? The mere fact that a person totally unknown to them—a Gentile at that—is speaking out for them already speak volumes about how they have managed to muscle in on the peoples of the world.

To be clear about it, I am no anti-Semitic. I look upon the value of each individual based on his merit, not even if the entire race sucks. And despite Judaism/Christianity/Islam seemingly at odds with each other, see for yourself who benefits from the religious system born of the loins of Abraham.
 
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Picture of the Day: How both ideas work.

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The Jews had been living in Israel 600 years before the Arabs came. And even after their exile there had never been an autonomous Arab country there. Only the Jews have ever successfully set up a sovereign nation on that land so there was never "previous owners" of that land for them to take it away from. And you cannot steal something that the League of Nations legally gave to you. Anti-Semites are the ones revising history, not the Jews. And what do you think did the Arabs do to get to Northern Africa and why is that area almost absent of black population? Why do the UK and France have territories in the Pacific, Atlantic, Carribean and Indian Ocean? How come Russia became so big of a country? Why are there even white people living in South Africa and Namibia today? Did they all get there through peaceful settlement or immigration? The formation of most countries in the world is primarily a result of violent conquest, invasion, expansion and expulsion or even genocide of the natives that first settled there. It is common among nearly all nations and societies in the past.

If you understand how the geopolitics of post-World War 2 played out for the world powers and their pawns in the Mideast, you would see how the Jews have put to good use their financial supremacy and global sympathy to convince the League of Nations—with backing from the US and European powers, all of which are housing millions of Jews with the mighty dollars and what-have-you—to grant them access to their so-called holy lands, this even after, as you say, they have been gone for thousands of years because of their own making.

The issue is not that the Jews had been living in Israel before the Arabs came. The issue is that the land they had been using came from the Canaanites, the first civilizations who owned the place, uprooted by Jacob's sons after their Egyptian captivity.

"And you cannot steal something that the League of Nations legally gave to you": Isn't this the most naive line here? The League of Nations, for all its ideologue, had no mandate to give or distribute any portion of earthland as it sees fit for its main benefactors.

After the downfall of Western empires in the Mideast, there was a wild power play that took place in that hell of a place. The Sauds saw fit to snag those parts that used to belong to the Ottoman empire and establish yes, the Saudi kingdom. The old nations came back into their own, albeit with new lines demarcating their territories. The trouble was that the whole Mideast was now peopled by the Arabs all over the place. If there were Jews at all, their number was not enough to comprise a legal nation. But loads of money and influence powerplay took care of that. And yes, this is real history, no revisionist invention for all those who care to know.

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Science is dependent on the use of the inductive method which relies on, yes, observation and experiment. Nothing more. And from things that are observed and experimented, scientists can only draw general conclusions on what they find, not on what they can't find. That's why science has nothing to say about God. Science is not used to "prove" the non-existence of anything. That's a misuse of the discipline! I'm not belittling science. You're the one aggrandizing science from its limits.

The very methods of science as you say have lifted the world from its darkest hours born of the mystics of this world. If religions and their fanatics would have their say about it, we'd still be believing that the world is flat and the mysteries of electricity are all satanic inspirations. To say that science can come up with general conclusions affirmed by what exist is a big departure from the previous mystic overlords who would impose their will on all their living subjects by the inspiration of whatever vagaries come to their imaginations next. Although current superstring theories could conjecture about possibilities unheard of in previous ages, it is still disciplined enough to warn of its own limitations—a far cry from religious systems that would make the grandest of claims without feeling the obligation to show proof to all the same outlandish schemes. The whole system after all, hiding in the netherworld, allows for anything and everything. It's the magic hat all over again, but people are too credulous and gullible for things in this regard.

Science respects itself too much to speculate into what does not exist, and there is no need to aggrandize it as its own achievement could always speak for itself. But to be proud that science could not venture into nonexistence is the laughable habit of apologists who carry the torch of irrationality and abuse throughout the centuries. To put mystic belief above reason and science while appearing to be all too humble about it, to make it appear as if mystic systems could still hold sway over the population as if by some magic is the last dying gasps of a system on the threshold of general redundancy.
 
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It is not a matter of simply "mirroring" elements and beliefs of other religious systems before them. It is a matter of wielding those very same elements that existed way before the Jews came into their own and use them to banish those same traditions from memory as if they were the ones who invented or came up with them first. Notice how the Jews/Christians tend to destroy all other religious writings, artifacts so nobody could trace how they appropriated the old traditions for their own use. All their concept of God, of Jesus the Nazarene, of their rituals, etc., are lifted off materials that came thousands of years before their own ascendancy.

The analogy of pyramids as a general concept does not apply in the case of religious system. The concept of pyramids is based on ideas of mathematics and engineering, whereas for a religious system to be using the same storylines that existed before is another matter. There is a reason that general concepts as pyramids, pagodas, cannot be copyrighted or patented—but you can bet your kingdom come that stories could be. Look no further than the specifics of copyright and patent laws. Another thing is that there is a strong foundation to the belief that the practice of pyramid creation is a worldwide phenomenon of the ancient world, their very creators connected throughout the known world as it was.

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Perennialism is based on universal ideas that could stand the test of time. Indeed, most religious systems share the same ideals. However, it is in the matter of details that religious systems must always differ. Notice how the biblical narratives are merely using details taken from other religious systems before them, from the use of halos to show the sanctity of heavenly beings, the use of specific numbers, the tales of creation and the Flood, etc. If you have taken the time to read one of the posts I had earlier, I have listed some of the specific items that Judaism/Christianity/Islam have liberally taken from earlier ones. That the Jews have not contributed one unique item to the existing traditions speaks volumes of their deadly intent to just use what already exist and mold them to their own ends.

Before Christ, the world was essentially pagan except the Jews. The Jews never tried to erase or hijack other religious belief systems because they never, as well, tried to convert anyone into their faith. And if you still haven't learned about it, Judaism, as far as the scriptures are concerned, stops about 400 years before Christ. They reject a lot of books in the Bible even those written in their time (Apocrypha and Deuterocanonical books) that they thought were not inspired. They only went by books that were authored by Moses and other main prophets. And those ancient pagan religions that you think were appropriated by the Jews had survived and coexisted with Judaism for millenias until Christianity became the dominant religion. And that is not just because of forceful conversions of pagans into Christianity. It is because of the unstoppable spread of Christianity that the Roman Empire, even after having slaughtered thousands of Christians for three hundred years, decided to adopt it as their official religion. Pagans were more likely to convert into Christianity (due to the demonstration of faith of Christians through martyrdom) than Christians converting to paganism. Christians would rather die than renounce their faith. The pagans were not steadfast with their faith. They're willing to convert even for trivial reasons. The number of Christians only grew more despite the persecution and it became a big problem for the Romans. The Romans had NO other choice but to make Christianity the official religion of the empire and everyone else had to convert except the Jews. Even amidst persecution the Jews continued to practice their own faith and rejected Christianity. And even other pagan religions (Norse religion for example) which were never touched by the Romans died out as well. The end of paganism was inevitable regardless.

And it always amazes me whenever Judaism and Christianity are accused of stealing from paganism while I've never heard that any religions stole from the Judaism/Christianity or other religions. Many religions include stories of a flood, a God-man, and stories of resurrection from the dead. Even the Navajos which was in the Americas and never had contact with the Old World had such. The fact is, the knowledge of these shared beliefs were known by many cultures for millenias. Nearly all religions have a flood story simply because there was one. The ancient Egyptian, Hindu, and other pagan religiosn had a saviour figure (and closely resemble that of Christianity) because they were prophecies of Jesus.

And you know what? God has given a glimpse to peoples in various cultures before Christ of the certain realities of truth that would one day become, the Bible. And certain pagan practices, such as rituals, feast days, etc., would be kept, not because of appropriation or tradition but because these are understood and undeniable channels of man's communication with God. Paganism is the first step or the slice of a reality that awaits to be discovered. And monotheism is man's greater realization and understanding of that reality.


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It is ever easy to dismiss the idea of conquering Jews as among the outstanding conspiracy theories out there. One fell swoop of a statement and the naysayers could go away. But look all around and ask yourself who holds the financial and influence-peddling power in this world? The mere fact that a person totally unknown to them—a Gentile at that—is speaking out for them already speak volumes about how they have managed to muscle in on the peoples of the world.

To be clear about it, I am no anti-Semitic. I look upon the value of each individual based on his merit, not even if the entire race sucks. And despite Judaism/Christianity/Islam seemingly at odds with each other, see for yourself who benefits from the religious system born of the loins of Abraham.

Most of those conspiracy theories about them are actually negative propagandas spread by the Nazis throughout Germany to convince people that the Jews were to blame for Germany's economic depression. Unfortunately stupid rumours like these tend to stick around in the minds of, um, pardon me for the term, idiots.

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If you understand how the geopolitics of post-World War 2 played out for the world powers and their pawns in the Mideast, you would see how the Jews have put to good use their financial supremacy and global sympathy to convince the League of Nations—with backing from the US and European powers, all of which are housing millions of Jews with the mighty dollars and what-have-you—to grant them access to their so-called holy lands, this even after, as you say, they have been gone for thousands of years because of their own making.

The issue is not that the Jews had been living in Israel before the Arabs came. The issue is that the land they had been using came from the Canaanites, the first civilizations who owned the place, uprooted by Jacob's sons after their Egyptian captivity.

"And you cannot steal something that the League of Nations legally gave to you": Isn't this the most naive line here? The League of Nations, for all its ideologue, had no mandate to give or distribute any portion of earthland as it sees fit for its main benefactors.

After the downfall of Western empires in the Mideast, there was a wild power play that took place in that hell of a place. The Sauds saw fit to snag those parts that used to belong to the Ottoman empire and establish yes, the Saudi kingdom. The old nations came back into their own, albeit with new lines demarcating their territories. The trouble was that the whole Mideast was now peopled by the Arabs all over the place. If there were Jews at all, their number was not enough to comprise a legal nation. But loads of money and influence powerplay took care of that. And yes, this is real history, no revisionist invention for all those who care to know.

Do you even know what the Land of Israel was like before the Jews returned there in the 19th century? A barren wasteland. Israel was mostly hot desert not suitable for habitation until the Jews due to their ingenuity cultivated the land and made it bloom. The truth is that the majority of Arabs in Israel have immigrated to it only during the 20th centuries due to the economic boom in pursue of a better life.
That land belonged to no one after the fall of the Ottomans, and there was no government there yet because the people were not yet ready, and so it was the UK that was assigned by the League of Nations to take care of it. It was understood from the beginning that Israel would be the Jewish homeland. Yes, they acquired most of the depopulated areas and cultivated the land so it rightfully belongs to them. Lebanon was supposed to be the homeland of Christian Arabs. And Arab Muslims (there was even no distinction between Palestinians and Jordanians; they are just one ethnicity.) were supposed to be in Jordan but the Arabs did not follow what was initially planned like they always do and launched an Arab movement (started by whom? surprise, it was an ally by Hitler, his name was Mohammad Amin al Husayni) claiming all of the land and wanting the Jews be removed from the region hence the root of this conflict. The Jews were gracious enough to accept Arabs into their own country and grant them full citizenship when Palestinian Arabs wanted all of them killed. Only the Jews have the moral and legal rights to Israel. And historical revisionism (anti-Semites are the ones doing this) can't change this fact.

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The very methods of science as you say have lifted the world from its darkest hours born of t[he mystics of this world. If religions and their fanatics would have their say about it, we'd still be believing that the world is flat and the mysteries of electricity are all satanic inspirations. To say that science can come up with general conclusions affirmed by what exist is a big departure from the previous mystic overlords who would impose their will on all their living subjects by the inspiration of whatever vagaries come to their imaginations next. Although current superstring theories could conjecture about possibilities unheard of in previous ages, it is still disciplined enough to warn of its own limitations—a far cry from religious systems that would make the grandest of claims without feeling the obligation to show proof to all the same outlandish schemes. The whole system after all, hiding in the netherworld, allows for anything and everything. It's the magic hat all over again, but people are too credulous and gullible for things in this regard.

Science respects itself too much to speculate into what does not exist, and there is no need to aggrandize it as its own achievement could always speak for itself. But to be proud that science could not venture into nonexistence is the laughable habit of apologists who carry the torch of irrationality and abuse throughout the centuries. To put mystic belief above reason and science while appearing to be all too humble about it, to make it appear as if mystic systems could still hold sway over the population as if by some magic is the last dying gasps of a system on the threshold of general redundancy.

But religion is not meant to explain the natural world, although ancient religions used to do that, i.e. paganism, until monotheism corrected man's misperception of nature and the Divine. The Bible is a spiritual book and as early as the 4th century long before modern science was conceived, St. Augustine of Hippo, warned against the literal interpretation of it. The Genesis account was never viewed as a literal truth by Christians at that time until the 20th century with rise of Christian fundamentalism. In fact, the 14th century Jewish rabbi, Nachmanides, had to interpret the creation account of the Hebrew Bible of which he came up with a similar interpretation as that of the Big Bang.

Science explores our physical reality. But it doesn't say how many possible realities are there are or if the physical reality is the only one that exists. Religion explores transcendental reality. And it is based on revelation of which you are free to NOT believe. Religion has little to do with science for the reason that they are intended for different purposes so there is no point in comparing or pitting them against each other. Religion only concerns about the spiritual relationship of people to God and to one another, and to give meaning to scientific pursuit. Science doesn't try to explain meaning or purpose or spiritual connections nor religion tries to explain the natural world. They are not meant to substitute each other. When properly viewed, science and religion go hand-in-hand and in fact support each other, each addressing part of the whole picture.
 
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"Religion only concerns about the spiritual relationship of people to God" = base on Blind Faith , oooppss :yawn:
 
^ ang haba ng basa ko +_+!!

Asan na yung gumawa ng thread na to na sinasabi nyang atheist sya? Buhay pa ba? LOL

If you guys no longer believe in God because 'you think he abandoned you, you think he doesn't listen, you saw a man killed at the street and no one helped, you saw lives taken because of catastrophes, you're hearing news about thievery, rapes, murder, terrorism, violence or what have you" then I pity you... Because what you have was just BELIEF and not FAITH.

You guys wants to see, feel, or hear things first before you can tell it's real. Then let me ask you, do you have Brain? Do you have Heart? You might have seen it from pictures but have you ever seen, or even touched your heart or brain even once? If no, then what makes you think you have them? That is what you call FAITH. Believing on something that you have not seen, heard, felt, tasted or what have you... Hope you guys find it too, someday at the right time...

He have PLANS for all of us... We don't have to know, we just have to have Faith. Who wants to spoil the surprise anyway? ;)

i dont now if your blind or ignorant sorry though ??!! that thing you just said is human doing not plan or faith-ed !!
EXAMPLE: if i kill one of your family do think that his plan !!



thats legit brother!!
 
Before Christ, the world was essentially pagan except the Jews. The Jews never tried to erase or hijack other religious belief systems because they never, as well, tried to convert anyone into their faith. And if you still haven't learned about it, Judaism, as far as the scriptures are concerned, stops about 400 years before Christ. They reject a lot of books in the Bible even those written in their time (Apocrypha and Deuterocanonical books) that they thought were not inspired. They only went by books that were authored by Moses and other main prophets. And those ancient pagan religions that you think were appropriated by the Jews had survived and coexisted with Judaism for millenias until Christianity became the dominant religion. And that is not just because of forceful conversions of pagans into Christianity. It is because of the unstoppable spread of Christianity that the Roman Empire, even after having slaughtered thousands of Christians for three hundred years, decided to adopt it as their official religion. Pagans were more likely to convert into Christianity (due to the demonstration of faith of Christians through martyrdom) than Christians converting to paganism. Christians would rather die than renounce their faith. The pagans were not steadfast with their faith. They're willing to convert even for trivial reasons. The number of Christians only grew more despite the persecution and it became a big problem for the Romans. The Romans had NO other choice but to make Christianity the official religion of the empire and everyone else had to convert except the Jews. Even amidst persecution the Jews continued to practice their own faith and rejected Christianity. And even other pagan religions (Norse religion for example) which were never touched by the Romans died out as well. The end of paganism was inevitable regardless.

And it always amazes me whenever Judaism and Christianity are accused of stealing from paganism while I've never heard that any religions stole from the Judaism/Christianity or other religions. Many religions include stories of a flood, a God-man, and stories of resurrection from the dead. Even the Navajos which was in the Americas and never had contact with the Old World had such. The fact is, the knowledge of these shared beliefs were known by many cultures for millenias. Nearly all religions have a flood story simply because there was one. The ancient Egyptian, Hindu, and other pagan religiosn had a saviour figure (and closely resemble that of Christianity) because they were prophecies of Jesus.

It would never hurt to see countless sources explaining how Judaism/Christianity/Islam are essentially rehashed versions of religions much older than them. The reason it came to light only recently is that the pieces of evidence were hidden for a long time that were it not for the latest archeological discoveries, we would never have known. Moreover, the task is made more complicated by the fact that even if we have the evidence, say in the form of cuneiform tablets, for example, it would take a certain time before we are able to decipher their meaning. But now we know that the tales of creation, the flood, much of the content of the Old Testament and New Testament, the Nazarene, etc., etc., were derived from much older sources. The question then arises: why did they lie hidden for a long time? Because, the Israelites, as well as many conquering powers back in the time, had the nasty habit of destroying the historical records, literature, and everything else of the conquered, literally seeking to vanquish into total obliteration the existence—and evidence thereof—of the losing people.

It is irrelevant how the three religions finally came up with official dogma, throwing away unacceptable materials that do not agree with the consistency of the total whole. If anything, it supports the truth that the final creed is not unlike any edited Marvel/DC self-consistent hero universe. As Moses is largely a derivative of either Horus or Sargon, we now know that there is no Moses as the bible dutifully describes him. And many scientists would agree. The biblical materials that we ascribe to a single person known as Moses are beautiful ensemble of edited scripts by great Jewish leaders who were watching closely over the flock.

The only reason why Christianity became the dominant religion is because the Roman Empire adopted it. Great organizers and utilitarians that the Romans were, they saw in the Old Testament, which lends itself greatly to a marauding interpretation, mighty opportunity to expand their territories and influence, while the New Testament they saw as a formidable sedative to keep the subjugated people meek and manageable—that is, as a way for subdued nations and classes all over the face of the earth to have some measure of pittance for their miserable existence and make them docile and submissive for later conditionings. The Old Testament they viewed as the master credo, the New Testament as the subject gospel, exhorting the conquered subjects not to seek earthly contentment in the current life anymore, but to seek it in the next one instead. Afterall, not all people could be masters at the same time, could they? If the first principle, that of physical conquest, failed them in their search for world dominion, then surely the second—spiritual conscription—should secure it for eternity. For the Romans who had been looking for a way to master the world ahead of Alexander the Great's vision—of one world system, if not government—Christianity was heaven-sent elixir indeed in that direction, a twofold approach whose probability of failure was almost close to nil given the immense resources of the Empire of that time.

With the Romans now backing Christianity full force, what's to stop the religion then? Some people they tried to convert by peaceful means, but tellingly, much more were tested and put to the sword if they tried to stick to their old faiths. The saddest day for multiculturalists, or whatever they would have called them then. In any case, thus started the destruction of other cultural and religious icons, written materials, etc., that did not go well with the Christian fathers at the time. Does the Temple of Artemis sound familiar to anybody? It was the top of the ancient 7 wonders of the world back then, but Christian fanatics did not show the slightest hesitation to burn it to the ground. Who lost? We, the people of posterity and the others of the future.

"And it always amazes me whenever Judaism and Christianity are accused of stealing from paganism while I've never heard that any religions stole from the Judaism/Christianity or other religions." Exactly. The reason again? Because there was/is nothing to steal :) As I said, Judaism/Christianity/Islam did not even bother to add to any existing fairy tales of the time, merely content to use what was readily available to further their own agendas. When we touch on this issue, we must not forget that these stories predated the Jewish versions by thousands of years. For example, what we know as Noah was really ZIUSUDRA aka UTNAPISHTIM of the Atrahasis Epic, a Sumerian/Babylonian/Akkadian epic that was recounted thousands of years before the Jews came up with the bright idea of replacing the name with their local version, Noah. Heck, even anime lovers are familiar with Gilgamesh, another much, much earlier recounting of the flood story.

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Most of those conspiracy theories about them are actually negative propagandas spread by the Nazis throughout Germany to convince people that the Jews were to blame for Germany's economic depression. Unfortunately stupid rumours like these tend to stick around in the minds of, um, pardon me for the term, idiots.

Although I do not agree with the Hitler solution, I do see where some of the accusations against the Jews were coming from: mostly, if pertains to how the Jews have come to hold the whole economy of Europe by the throat by holding many royal houses indebted to Jewish bankers and financiers, largely by financing endless wars and extorting stratospheric interest afterwards. The irony, however, is that many Jews also made tremendous profits from the deaths of their fellow Jews, financing even Hitler's own atrocities at the height of World War 2 against their very own people, though hidden through business partnerships with American and other European concerns of the time.

The truth of the matter is that many ordinary Jews paid the price for the success of a few Jewish families in the finance and business sector, victims of the success of their more cunning brothers who shrewdly manipulated the bloodlust of the warring royalties of Europe at the time.

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Do you even know what the Land of Israel was like before the Jews returned there in the 19th century? A barren wasteland. Israel was mostly hot desert not suitable for habitation until the Jews due to their ingenuity cultivated the land and made it bloom. The truth is that the majority of Arabs in Israel have immigrated to it only during the 20th centuries due to the economic boom in pursue of a better life.
That land belonged to no one after the fall of the Ottomans, and there was no government there yet because the people were not yet ready, and so it was the UK that was assigned by the League of Nations to take care of it. It was understood from the beginning that Israel would be the Jewish homeland. Yes, they acquired most of the depopulated areas and cultivated the land so it rightfully belongs to them. Lebanon was supposed to be the homeland of Christian Arabs. And Arab Muslims (there was even no distinction between Palestinians and Jordanians; they are just one ethnicity.) were supposed to be in Jordan but the Arabs did not follow what was initially planned like they always do and launched an Arab movement (started by whom? surprise, it was an ally by Hitler, his name was Mohammad Amin al Husayni) claiming all of the land and wanting the Jews be removed from the region hence the root of this conflict. The Jews were gracious enough to accept Arabs into their own country and grant them full citizenship when Palestinian Arabs wanted all of them killed. Only the Jews have the moral and legal rights to Israel. And historical revisionism (anti-Semites are the ones doing this) can't change this fact.

I do not know where you are getting your historical data, but for starters, the modern state of Israel came to be on the year 1948, not by the "19th century." More importantly, Israel is not a "barren wasteland" as you claim. It does host a desert, yes, the Negev, but most of the area is fertile, not barren. Long before Israel popularized its use of drip technology to access the barren areas, it was making a living in the abundant soils elsewhere in the country. Thus, your statement that "The truth is that the majority of Arabs in Israel have immigrated to it only during the 20th centuries due to the economic boom in pursue of a better life" does not hold water, but I would not blame you for following the popular anecdotes of the time. It is just too tempting to believe in the all-conquering Jews script.

Blood enmity and historical shortcomings are largely to blame for the breakdown of Mideast territorial arrangements as far as the Jews and Arabs are concerned. So many issues are at play that there is no way we'd be seeing a solution soon, especially in our lifetime. For example, even doing without the ancient records, it would still be a hard pill to swallow for Arabs to just wake up with their hated brothers (literally) the Jews in their midst suddenly, after living without them for so long. The Jews answer with cunning and technicalities. The old and new powers meanwhile just want to get rid of the perceived guilt and dispose of the ancient Jewish problem once and for all. It is a continuing story, so not very wise to cast the vote on where all of these is going. Suffice to say, with all the money that the Jews have come to acquire through the centuries, why didn't they just finance Columbus's voyage and claimed even just a piece of the New World as the new Promised Land :)

Again, the root of the conflict is not that any villainous Arab in league with the Devil Hitler just wanted to throw away the Jews out of the Middle East. It is just so naive and superficial a take on the matter. It goes way deeper, of historical bad blood between the two relatives, of lands and birthrights swindled and forfeited, of Jesus and Mohammed ascendancy, etc., etc. The funny thing is that we find ourselves enmeshed in their conflict just because of the fairy tale tie.

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But religion is not meant to explain the natural world, although ancient religions used to do that, i.e. paganism, until monotheism corrected man's misperception of nature and the Divine. The Bible is a spiritual book and as early as the 4th century long before modern science was conceived, St. Augustine of Hippo, warned against the literal interpretation of it. The Genesis account was never viewed as a literal truth by Christians at that time until the 20th century with rise of Christian fundamentalism. In fact, the 14th century Jewish rabbi, Nachmanides, had to interpret the creation account of the Hebrew Bible of which he came up with a similar interpretation as that of the Big Bang.

Science explores our physical reality. But it doesn't say how many possible realities are there are or if the physical reality is the only one that exists. Religion explores transcendental reality. And it is based on revelation of which you are free to NOT believe. Religion has little to do with science for the reason that they are intended for different purposes so there is no point in comparing or pitting them against each other. Religion only concerns about the spiritual relationship of people to God and to one another, and to give meaning to scientific pursuit. Science doesn't try to explain meaning or purpose or spiritual connections nor religion tries to explain the natural world. They are not meant to substitute each other. When properly viewed, science and religion go hand-in-hand and in fact support each other, each addressing part of the whole picture.

"But religion is not meant to explain the natural world...." Tsk, tsk, tsk. My, I wonder how the pope, the whole of Vatican, add to that the Orthodoxy would react to this statement.

For the longest time until Galileo and other lights of science told them otherwise—even at the cost of life—the whole of Christianity monopolized all of astronomy, medicine, education, and virtually all piece of purported knowledge to explain the natural world, where nothing passes for academic and public consumption, by publication or any form of dissemination, until the church says so, until it is decreed that not one content offends and goes against official world view. Against this suffocating backdrop, the likes of Darwin, Bruno (the philosopher whose insatiable search for the truth was finally—mercifully—ended by church authorities by being burned at the stake) paid with verbal or written castigation, physical threats, career termination, and excommunication or death. And why not? God says so.... After all, he is omniscient and omnipotent, so why not his chosen men?

By apologizing for its past atrocities, even if late in coming, at least the Vatican has learned its lessons fast or be faced with obsolescence quickly. So it has adapted to the times, though leaving many issues still hanging and unaddressed, at least until it is still safe to do so. The Romans always win and so it has stood. The physical empire is gone, but they have the spiritual fortress this time, along with the unceasing contributions—tributes, really, but now euphemistically called tithes—and other benefits of course. Pity Gomburza who thought the issue in question was all a matter of pure faith.
 
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Nabasa ko lang.

"Is Bill Gates going to hell even though he has donated large portions of his wealth to charity, but is an atheist? And is Adolf Hitler going to heaven because he was a christian?" -rawr_kitty176
 
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